Ephiphany Project's most recent album, Hin Dagh, was recorded in Armenia while Bet Williams and John Hodian, who form the band, travelled there. It is a collection of ancient texts sung by Williams and accompanied by Hodian on piano as well as a number of Armenian musicians. The music is haunting, uplifting, and spiritual in ways that have nothing and everything to do with religion.
The show featured but three musicians: Williams, Hodian and drummer Mal Stein. Hearing live renditions of album cuts is exciting, even more so when the arrangement is mixed up. Live, Epiphany Project was able to maintain the intensity of the album with an entirely different arrangement. They played with such a full sound that at times I was amazed that but three performers were on stage.
It's like when you hear an acoustic version of your favorite rock cut and you think, "Wow. This is even better than the original."
But to describe their music would be to do it a disservice. I will let you go and discover that yourself. I will tell you one thing though: Williams teased the audience with a brief bit of Tuvan throat singing at the end of Tubwahun and one other song that escapes me at the moment and...wow. What a talented vocalist.
Working with these musicians really gives me a sense of the unclassifiability of a lot of independent (not "indie rock," but independent of a mainstream record label) bands. I think I'll start calling them hyphen- bands, because it's always something like bluegrass-jazz-zydeco-rock-oldtimecountry or world-jazz-rock-classical. Especially writing articles for the upcoming GrassRoots Festival. The more you define about a band, the less you describe what they actually sound like. It's like anti-journalism: to understand it, you must be descriptive; by describing it with these broad terms like "rock" or "bluegrass" you actually move away from what you are seeking to describe. Very Tao.
So much so, that I am reminded of The Tao of Physics, one of my favorite reads ever. It seeks to bridge quantum physics and Eastern religion, and even if you know little about either, the book will help you to understand both, as well as the relationship between the two.
Sure enough, that book was criticized by physicists who said that author Fritjof Capra didn't really understand the work that goes into physics. It simplified things a bit, which all literature does simply by the inadequacies of language. The Tao Te Ching describes it this way:
The Tao that can be expressed is not the eternal Tao; The name that can be defined is not the unchanging name.And with that ancient text out of the way, I give you the full interview with Epiphany Project:
[As reached via cell phone at their Woodstock recording studio]
Chris:
How do you pronounce the name of Hin Dagh, your most recent album?
John:
Heen-Dah.
Chris:
And what does that mean?
John:
It means “ancient ode” or ancient text.”
Chris:
Which makes sense, given the composition of the CD. What language is that?
John:
Armenian. We recorded that album in Armenia
Chris:
You have a personal connection to Armenia. What is it that drew you there?
John:
Well, I’m Armenian. I’d never been there before. My parents were born here as well, but my grandmother lived there, a survivor of the Armenia Genocide.
Somebody who does a lot of work over there, who has an organization called the Naregatsi Art Institute, a wonderful, philanthropic arts organization, he had heard of my work somehow. [He] arranged to get together with me and basically talked me into going over there, which I never thought I’d do necessarily, especially at the time, because Bet and I had just had a son who was about nine months old.
We went over there and we completely fell in love with the country, with the people, with the work this guy was doing at the Naregatsi Art Institute. And I started working a lot with composers over there. It’s a fascinating country. I think I’d be fascinated by it even if I wasn’t Armenian. It’s got so many things going against it and so many things going for it. It’s the only Christian country in the middle of all these Muslim countries. It’s got a lot of problems with its neighbors, both with Turkey and Azerbaijan. Its only friendly neighbor is Iran.
All the people – not all of them – but a lot of artists, a lot of poets, a lot of composers, a lot of painters – all the streets are named after composers and painters and architects – it’s just a fascinating place, it really is. Especially if you have any interest in history. We’re so used to kind of an American version of history or even a European one, and it’s “oh, wow, this goes back to 1700-something.” A lot of people over there are really more in touch with truly ancient history.
Chris:
I didn’t know there was so much history around there.
John:
Well it’s truly the cradle of civilization.
Chris:
So you were finding these ancient texts there. How did you choose which ones to include in your work?
John:
Oh, it just had to be something that was inspiring. you might want to talk to Bet about that one. She tends to be more on the text part of things. I tend to be more on the music part of things. But as we discovered texts and decided we wanted to sing them, that kind of set us off purposely looking for more texts and meeting scholars or in some cases people who were practicing these texts.
Chris:
What were your influences, then, going into the project?
John:
My influences are pretty wide. I grew up in a house where all they listened to was Armenian music. But I also grew up outside of Philadelphia, so as a kid growing up there was no getting around popular music, which is everything from conventional popular music: the Beatles, Motown, that sort of stuff. But then most of my training was in classical music. I spent a lot of years studying classical composition and piano and what not. Bet, on the other hand, has almost the exact opposite situation. All the things that we missing in me, she sort of has. She’s more of a singer-songwriter, which I never was. She was very involved in musical theater. Her father directed musicals, she’s been in a lot of musicals. And she had classical voice training, making her more of a singer-songwriter. At first glance we wouldn’t have that much to do with each other, at least on paper. But as a composer, I was really interested in finding a voice to write for. As a singer-songwriter, Bet was doing more conventional songs, but she was also experimenting: doing things with backwards vocals and strange tunings. And it’s in that kind of in-between netherworld – between classical music and world music and experimental stuff, and folk music – that we met, and that gave birth to Epiphany Project. So our influences are all that stuff, but we never sit down and consciously try to doing things, even with this. We didn’t say “Hey, let’s write a world music record that deals with ancient texts.” It just is what it is. We just did it because we happened to be in Armenia at that time, traveling around a lot in the rural parts of the country. And it was time for a new Epiphany Record. And that’s what came out. By recording over there we were able to work with a lot of phenomenal Armenian musicians. It presented a lot of challenges, but also a lot of great opportunities.
Chris:
How does recording in Armenia compare to recording in Armenia?
John:
Well, it’s hard. Armenia’s a very poor country. It’s almost – you cannot find a good piano to record on. There’s one decent piano in the opera house, and if you lobby them for months and months they might let you record on it, but then you still have to slip the guard $100 at the last minute. I say all this because it’s something that we did at one point. So just in terms of resources like that, it’s really, really hard. In terms of resources like musicians and talent, it’s fantastic. We used a lot of instruments like kamancha and duduk and things we wouldn’t have access to here. I mean you can find people who play those instruments, but maybe not as genuinely, as wonderfully as people over there.
Chris:
You do a lot of touring in Europe, in Germany in particular. What draws you there?
John:
They want us there? [chuckles] We tend to go where we’re wanted, where we have more of a following. For us, we happen to have more of a following there. Plus our agent is in Germany and most of our support is there.
Chris:
What brings you to Cornell?
John:
I’m not really sure how they heard us or heard of us. But we’re really looking forward to playing there. I haven’t been in the hall, but I’ve looked at it and I’ve heard it’s really wonderful, and the piano plays wonderful, which is something I’m looking forward to. A lot of times you don’t know what you’re gonna get from an instrument. I’m really looking forward to coming up there and playing this show. We’re playing with, Bet and I, with a phenomenal drummer from the Lower East Side who plays a lot of hand percussion. He’s great whether it’s a jazz thing or a world thing or a Middle Eastern thing. He’s great at odd time signatures. When it’s just the three of us, like this concert will be, it leaves things very wide open and becomes a kind of energetic, improvisatory…I find the trio concerts are especially exciting.
Chris:
How do you keep your improvisation fresh in show after show?
John:
The songs are the songs, and they are what they are. But between them there’s a lot of room to do anything. In fact, we almost approach it like jazz music, in that there is what’s called a “head, ” but then how you treat that, and what you do underneath that, and where you go from there is fairly wide open. I wouldn’t be very interested in playing the same thing night after night. I don’t think I’d be able to play the same thing night after night. So my main interest is in trying to start from scratch every night and trying to invent it as much on the spot as possible. And the interaction between the drummer and I, and the way Bet feeds off of that, is I think what makes the live shows so exciting.
Chris:
How about the crowd energy?
John:
That’s really important. That’s almost everything. You can’t do it without that.
Chris:
This might sound silly, but do that American crowds differ from the European crowds in any way?
John:
Sort of. Sometimes the American crowds can seem more boisterous and energetic and enthusiastic. In parts of some countries the crowd is very quiet and sedate. I think, “Gosh, maybe they’re just not getting this or they’re just not liking it. And then you find out at the end, they’ve kind of saved their applause. Then they’re extremely enthusiastic and they’ve been really profoundly moved. They just show it in a different way, which makes sense. American’s just kind of a louder, slightly more boisterous country. The audiences do tend to differ. I also find there’s less age-ism over there. A venue will have young people, old people, middle-aged people, all sorts of people in it. Whereas in America, this place is a rock club, that place is a classical music venue. Those kind of distinctions are not as prevalent over there. Which is helpful to us because it’s kind of hard to figure out what we are, whether it’s a world music thing or folk-rock thing or jazz, and it really comes out in between all that stuff.
Chris:
Is there anything else you would like to add?
John:
Sometimes people, based on whatever they happen to have read, might think, “Oh, it’s very serious thing they’re doing. They’re doing ancient sacred music; we’ll have to be quiet.” like they’re going to church or something. It’s not like that at all. It’s a really energetic, earthy, rhythmic and intense event. Especially seeing Bet, Bet’s a very dynamic, charismatic performer.
[Cell phone changes hands]
Chris:
I read in your e-mail that you’re in the studio right now. Where is that?
Bet:
We’re in Woodstock. We have a studio in an old farmhouse up in Woodstock where we work. We were in the city for many years, but we’re holing up in Woodstock for a while before we go back to Europe – actually to Armenia.
Chris:
Oh, cool, are you touring out there?
Bet:
We’re going to be doing some film stuff. And back to Europe for a tour in August and September.
Chris:
Might I ask what the film’s about?
Bet:
Sure. We’re doing a couple different things. John’s working on some footage form Armenia to do music-driven images of Armenia through the years – found footage, that sort of thing. An artsy project. Then I think we’re going to shoot some video to some of our songs, but we’re not really VH1-ing. But we’re gonna do film to music, that sort of thing.
Chris:
There’s always YouTube or your Web site.
Bet:
Exactly. Which has made this whole new world for people, with YouTube. It’s fascinating.
Chris:
I found some of your work on Youtube, actually. Really cool stuff.
Bet:
Thanks, that’s cool. You know, I kind of overheard what John was saying. It’s tough to say what [the music] is. And I also heard him say that it is successful. It is, and we do a lot of songs in English, too, but this past album happened to be more – actually, there are some English songs on it – but more of it is from the ancient texts or from some poetry.
Chris:
What prompted you to sing the ancient texts on this album?
Bet:
Being in that part of the world, it’s really fascinating. You really feel like, wow, the petroglyphs have been here for thousands of years. I’ve always been fascinated by dead and dying languages. To be able to speak or to try to speak words that people have spoken for thousands of years, to me that’s fascinating. And what people were saying through time, human beings. I’m not a religious person, but I am fascinated by the human experience and human spirituality, what people have been thinking since the dawn of time when they look at the stars, what they think what is the way to be in the world as a human being.
I guess I got drawn into the Aramaic writings because on our first album we had had a song called Tubwahun, which is the beatitudes. A friend of ours from Syria actually gave us a version of Avvon d’Bishmaiya, which is the Lord’s Prayer in the way it is spoken. And translated directly it’s more interesting to me than how it’s come through the King James version or whatever. Then people got wind of the fact that I was looking for ancient texts – I wasn’t trying to do anything specific, but I was just gathering writings form different religions, from different poets and finding, “what’s the link here?” The things I was drawn to seemed to have something in common. John and I started improvising with some of these words and that’s what became the album, some of the improvisations and some of the poetry. One of the songs is from the Zoroastrians, and it’s from one of their ancient prayers, and it basically is about making yourself better for the refreshment of the universe. And I love that. I love that piece of that. I don’t have to agree with anything that any religion says, but if there’s a piece there that’s so beautiful… Or there’s another song, Nainam, on the record, in Sanskrit. It’s basically: weapons cannot destroy the soul, fire cannot destroy the soul, air, water; nothing can destroy the imperishable soul. For this album I took some of the texts and the ancient poetry and I really just put together what was moving for me. Then John and I would go over it and see, “well, how does this work with this music?” And we improvised with some really great musicians in Armenia too, some of the masters. That was a fantastic experience, playing with some of the greatest musicians in Armenia.
Chris:
It seems like the way you describe the way you put together the album, it’s like a piece of this, a piece of that, improvisation. That, for me at least, seems to define your style.
Bet:
[laughs] Yeah, you’re probably right. It does draw from a lot. I guess that’s just how I am with what I’m interested in, even musically: just this and that.
It’s also fun to sing in languages not your own. I think when you speak a different language, whether it’s ancient or French or German or whatever, it moves your mind in a different way. For me, I like that. It’s like poetry; poetry moves your mind in a different way when you speak it. With the concerts I feel a lot of times when I’m connecting to an audience, you can see people moving with you and they add to it too. I love doing this music because, like John was saying, it can reach across – it doesn’t have to be just one thing. I think a lot of people can relate to that, I hope.
Chris:
Have you noticed your music is received differently in different places, like say, America versus Germany?
Bet:
Sure. We’ve been mostly touring in Europe and I think we’ve been touring mostly in Europe because we’re very well accepted there. It is kind of an artsier thing. It’s not pop music, but it’s not inaccessible. Do I think Americans only want pop music? No! But I think as far as audiences, maybe people are willing to try something new and different in Europe. And if they like it, great. Maybe in America people like to categorize things more.
Chris:
It’s not pop, but it still has energy.
Bet:
I think so too. For me, it’s certainly not sedate, and especially with __ Singh, our percussionist, he’s just great. He brings so much to it and he moves right with us, so it’s an evolving thing on stage that can happen, especially with an audience that’s willing. I’m looking forward to coming to Ithaca. I used to come there in college because my college roommate lived there. So I’d go to the Haunt, or whatever. I remember in Ithaca people were definitely into music. So I’m really looking forward to connecting with the people in Ithaca. We have some friends up there who are very into music and it seems like a very musical town.
Chris:
You’re in the studio right now, does that mean you’re recording another album?
Bet:
We are. We’re recording, actually resurrecting, some stuff we worked on years and years ago. There were some old songs and we stumbled across some old pages and said, “Oh, what’s this?” So we’re seeing what’s there and we’re working on some new pieces. We just had the piano tuned and I’m just getting ready to sing some vocals. It’s good, it’s a moist day so that’s good for the voice.
Chris:
Any chance we’ll hear some of that at the upcoming Cornell show?
Bet:
I think we will bring out a couple new pieces, for sure. Yeah…
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